Monday, November 26, 2007


There are only two Real Synthetic Oils in America

So you think that all these "Synthetic" oils available for sale in the various stores around the US are true PAO based Motor Oils.  Think again.  PAO or Polyalphaolefin is the main lab produced synthetic base for Group IV stock Synthetic Oils.  Base I, II & III are all dino oils.  I'm being really concise on this as it can be researched elsewhere, I'm just posting it to get the point out to the masses.  

Since a 1997 court case brought on by Mobil against Castrol (in the US), and subsequently won by Castrol granted anyone to produce their non-PAO Group III base oil and sell it as a full synthetic, again, ONLY in the United States because anything can be bought or decided by the wrong people (courts, not scientists) in the US.  So, since 1997 there has really only been one true synthetic oil available for sale in the United States, Mobil 1.  

Well, I'm letting everyone in on a little secret.  Castrol DOES sell a true synthetic in the US, it just doesn't make it here (which is fine by me).  Autozone sells Castrol 0w30 "European Formula" Syntec.  Look for the "Made in Germany" on the back of the bottle.  See, in Europe the BS that is allowed to fly in the US isn't worth squat before a real set of government standards groups as in Europe.  This is one of those few.  Castrol SLX (now Castrol Edge).  Note again, there are no other versions of Castrol or any other brand you can buy in a store on any given day other than Mobil 1 which are true synthetics.  

There are racing specialties and what not, and "Amsoil" which while a true synthetic has some of the sleaziest marketing people in the world.  Contrary to what they'd have you believe, Amsoil isn't the secret oil that most race teams use.  In my 10 years of Rallying, Hillclimb and Time Trials I believe I've seen Amsoil once.  Most people either use a high end conventional from Castrol or Valvoline, or Mobil 1 Synthetic. 

Either way, if you DO look at the various tests online, you'll find that Castrol actually does indeed beat Mobil 1 on many levels (though not all), so either really will do well for your synthetic needs.  Mobil 1 is generally a little on the thinner side of its viscosity rating (high number), whereas German Castrol (as it is referenced (or simply GC)) is a little on the thick for its equivalent viscosity rating.  

If you are running a high performance engine, a turbo engine, a supercharged engine and/or care simply about providing your engine the best care you can in terms of motor oil, you've got those choices for synthetics and nothing else.  Caveat emptor.

And if anyone is wondering, the reason why I specifically went for German Castrol is because it has been pretty much designed for the German motor manufacturers.  It is the only oil in the United States (synthetic) that passes the stricter of VW, Audi, Mercedes, Opel, BMW and Porsches requirements for engine oil.   I drive a Chevrolet Optra5 these days since selling the VW Bora Sport 1.8T and it is powered by a modern evolution of the 1st generation Iron Ecotec by Opel, which just happens to be produced in Melbourne by Holden (GM Australia).  The engine is happy now, getting the fluids it truly wants.

Till next time


Amsoil and Royal Purple. Everything else is just good enough to fry chips.

don't know what the other guy was saying about some other oils that are synthetic but he has no idea and should stick to his day job. By the way you Bozo, the Ecotec V6 is a Buick V6 from 1979 with some some smart marketing twicks on it to sell it as new and improved over the old one.
If you want to see how "good" your oil is i'll tell you what to do. Put some fresh of that "cooking" oil of yours and dyno run the car. Drop the oil and filter and put som Amsoil and a new filter "same brand as the oldone" and dyno run your car again. I can gurantee you that you will see at least 3 to 5 hp more on the rollers just by changing oil.
What else to you want??????
And again, the only 'true synthetic' motor oils sold in the US (as of 2011) are Royal Purple, AmsOil, and Red-Line. Every other oil that says 'synthetic' on it is 'synthesized' from the heated vapors at the top of the stack of the crude oil cracking vessel - oh, it's top grade, pure-as-you-can-get oil, but still dinosaur squeezings. The other three mentioned are made in a lab environment by combining chemicals to get the properties desired.
Gv is a true full synthetic as well. It's a group iv pao based oil. All mobil1 and other castrol oils are not a true full synthetic.
I'd like to see you prove it that castrol is not a true synthetic or Mobile 1 for that matter and I bet you can't!
They Both use group III rather than the required 4 to be synthetic in the US
mobile 1 is hydrocracker it is not true synthetic

SWEPCO is what I use. Not sure if it is synthetic or not - just works for me.
All you have to do is look at the MSDS on Mobil 1 is will tell you that it's not a full Synthetic motor oil.
To everyone on this page. Mobil 1 is not "HYDROCRACKED" it is a true PAO group IV base stock. Go online and pull a product data sheet that is on file per the US GOVERNMENT!!!!!!! Please do not talk out of your rear, you know what it makes you look like. If you cannot get the product data sheet I will be happy to send you one! Castrol Edge is "HYDROCRACKED" I know because I am an oil distributor of both Mobil and Castrol. What does this mean for the average customer. PAO Group IV base stock is synthetic. It means that all of the molecules in that oil are the same size. Look at it like this. Conventional oil (shell, Pennzoil, GTX, Mobil Super, etc...)imagine a bag of balls, all different sizes, football, soccer ball, tennis ball, golf ball, etc... these are the molecules in conventional oil. That is why you should start your car and give it 20 minutes before you leave. It is hard for an engine to pump that oil up the cylinders to the top of your engine. Now PAO group IV base stock synthetic. Imagine a bag of all golf balls. This is your synthetic. It takes less effort to pump it through the cylinders to the top of your engine. That is why you can start your car and drive it after 5 minutes or less. Get the picture? Not only that a PAO group IV base stock synthetic will also make your engine run cooler. That gives you less wear on your engine, less sludge, better gas mileage. That is also what allows you to run more miles between oil changes. It saves you money all around.
I remember when Mobil 1 first came out. It smelled like coconuts, what's up with that? I had a friend that toasted a camshaft while using it, and swore never to use it again. And, I recently had 1999 Saab 9-3 with about 250,000 miles on it. It had 49,000 when I bought it. I did a head gasket at about 150,000, and took a picture of the cylinder walls. You wouldn't believe the cross hatch still in there! and, no ridge, just like it rolled off the factory line. I used 100% synthetic amsoil, from the day I purchased the car. I think it was the European formula. Great oil. That's not the only car I used it in. I have been using it for years!
Bought the wife a new Honda CRV in 2014, changed the oil after the first 5000 miles and it still looked liked the day it was new. Used Mobile 1 15,000 mile full synthetic oil and after just 1000 miles it was turning brown and it smelled like conventional oil. Still use the Mobile 1, it's better than the conventional for a few dollars more but it's changed every 3000. Would like to find out what Honda used as a fill oil.
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Hi.. I am an Engineer at GM.. Only Formability Engineer. I know a little about everything BUT and expert at Nothing... I read everyone's comment and also did some other research webbing and conversing with the Engine Engineers. I LOVE Angle's comments.. He breaks it down to simple math and convincing visuals. I was impressed with what the Engine Engineers here at GM about the Mobile 1 Full Syn and some said Royal Purple is good to.. But all other oils will not give you the protection that they will.. One other thing is to MAINTAIN YOUR OIL CHANGES and Filter changes... Actually GM, Chrysler and Ford Use Moblile 1 full syn in all there High Performance engines.. In my Life One + One = Two.... Period.!!! I don't believe in hocus pocus or bible thumping theories... Sooooooooooo after saying all that... If I have a new engine and whether theirs performance or Not.... I will Use Mobile 1 Full Syn... or Royal Purple.
Thank you everyone for all the Great Info that you have shared for me to be More
To clear up confusion on whether or not Mobil 1 is a true PAO synthetic: There are several different "flavors" of Mobil 1. The "Mobile 1 Extended Performance" is a true PAO class IV synthetic. The standard Mobil 1 is not. There may be other variations, such as the racing versions that are also class IV, but per the AMSOIL website : the Extended Performance brand of Mobile 1 is the only non-petroleum based, true PAO. class IV synthetic sold by a major oil company in the US. Caveat, this article was from 2012.
I agree with you on motor oil. However if u believe 1+1=2 you would be right in believing a bible thumping theory and not in the theory of evolution. Lol expert in filtration of oil and repair or maintenance. Here are options for the cooking Oil Filtration, Used oil pick up, Repair and Filtration maintenance and Casino Filtration Services.



Fully synthetic oils are chemically engineered. Finished product requires no additives and has consistent uniform molecules. Mobil1 and Castrol make this, but 95 percent of what you see on the shelf is highly refined conventional oil with additives. Even AmsOil's OE and XL brands aren't full synthetic. Just because it has a name on the bottle doesn't mean everything with that name is the same.
I purchased a Toyota Tundra in November, 1999. As of August 22, 2016, there are 256,000+ miles on the engine. I change oil between 3,000 and 7,000 miles. I really dogged it for the first 85,000 miles, since then, I have been driving it with more sense. When I first purchased it, I changed the bulk oil to Castrol, after a few thousand to Castrol Edge. After almost 17 years of the best and longest service I have ever received from any vehicle I have owned, it still doesn't use any oil between changes and the oil still look and feel good, I believe it has more power than when I first purchased it. I said all of that to say this; I was using Castrol before I knew about edge, but as soon as I knew about it I started using it, My message; It doesn't matter what anyone has to say about Castrol Edge, my experience is, it has exceeded my expectations,and I'll continue using it until I'm convinced otherwise. And that will be a big job. I really enjoyed reading all of the comments from the professionals??????????

Dirty oil is dirty oil... 5000 miles Max between oil changes. Rocket scientist
Dirty oil is dirty oil... 5000 miles Max between oil changes. Rocket scientist
Hey all this talk about Mobile one acid Castrol doesn't mean anything. I've been running 75-90 gear oil in my engines for 35 years and never had an engine failure. My 02 Harley runs as good as it did on day one when I took it home and drained the crap they put in it at the factory then filled it with the gear oil. I only change it every 10,000 miles and with 178,000 showing on her she still runs great. Even the cam tensioners that everyone complain about are still in new condition. Forget all the crap you read on the internet about which oil is better and just fill your ride with any brand of 75-90 gear oil. It will be the best thing you ever do and you'll run it in everything you have for life once you see what it does for you. (Retired Aircraft Mechanic)
I know what you're talking about I run gear oil in my 2013 Challenger and it's great. Engine runs so much smoother and quieter it seems like a completely different motor. I ran gear oil in my Corvette for years and never had one dam thing go wrong in it. I did have a little trouble finding a place that would put it in the engine for me but other than that I love it. Geek
Are you aware gear oils are not rated the same as motor oils. Running 75w-90 gear oil is equivalent to 30 weight motor oil. It has pressure modifiers and is designed to protect gears and also has no detergent. Great for gears, but is very poor as a motor oil.
Although I have no doubt that a true PAO oil is theoretically superior, my personal experience is that most "real world" driving is more than adequately served by a lesser oil. Also, in looking at oil data online, I see that there is substantial overlap in oil properties. That is, some conventional oils perform similarly in certain key parameters to some highly regarded Group III based synthetics (that cost more). And, some Group III based oils perform nearly as well as Group IV oils. I have a 2003 Acura CL Type S (the rare 6 speed manual!) that I bought new. It now has 326,000 miles on it, and still runs beautifully. I'm cheap, so I have used Chevron Supreme conventional 10W-30 that I bought by the case at Costco. It was $.89 per quart for years. This isn't even the correct oil for this car (should be 5W-20), but Costco doesn't carry that. I changed the oil 3K-5k miles. So....what exactly would PAO oil have done for me? By the way, when I look into the oil fill hole, I see a spotless cylinder head. How long do you want your engine to last? I'm sure I could go 400,000 from the look of things. At some point a car just becomes obsolete. In case you might think this car is a one-off, I used the exact same discipline on two other Hondas with the same result ('86 Accord 337,000 miles, then sold; '98 Civic 260,000 miles, then totaled). I see endless debates on car forums about every automotive functional fluid. It seems so pointless to me. And, I'm sure that most of these people, after agonizing about which oil to use, keep the car for far fewer miles than I did. It's all about keeping up on maintenance.
Did u seriously say that is why you need to wait 20 minutes to warm up yoyr car. That is tru if it were 1985 and fuel injection was not in your car... now it is actually harmful to excessive idle even in cold weather!!!! 30 seconds is the most u need then drive easy under 2500rpm until oil is warmer. It heats up much faster avoiding sitting idle with cold oil for 10 minutes having the fuel injectors wash oil off the cylinder walls as yhe ecu tries to keep idle. Vs driving and building oil pressure. This is especially true with mobile one as it is one of the best cold start oils period. Excessive idling is not good for your car soo... it is hard to belive the other shart u spewed! By the way u are correct mobile one forms the molecules in the same shapes to help pumpability and flow... this does not mean it is a true synthetic level 4 or not... look up the work synthetic it means man made. If it is refined from crude no mattet how incredible the level if refining it is not synthetic... Duhhhh!!!
Mobile 1 extended is 15k with a good filter that is highway even at that 6-8k is pretty standard and 5k for city. Changing every 3k is obsurdly wasteful.... conventional oil reccomends changes every 3k so why do u stick to that for synthetic!?! I can see changing at 5-8k but 3k just buy conventional!? Unless u only put on 3k a year in that case i guess i could see
Schaeffer's oil. That is all.

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has any one look in to ... Schaeffer's full syn. motor oil ?
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Amsoil is one of just a few "true" 100% (no crude oil base) synthetic motor oils. Motul is another one and I use Motul 710 in my 1964 2 stroke Lambretta and 79 Vespa small frame. It runs about $18-$20.00 a QT, but it's worth it to me for the benefits. I've been doing a lot of research on this Amsoil company at the moment and i'm very impressed with the lab testing, data and real world application results I have seen so far. I drive high miles with my work commute every day and I normally use Mobil 1 on all my vehicles, but after everything I have learned about Amsoil and the real synthetic truth I have learned along with the science that backs it up, I've decided to switch and give 100% (true) synthetic oil a shot. I always thought full synthetic meant "all man made," but it doesn't. Everyone has there own experiences with what they use and if it works great, more power to you. The fact alone that Amsoil is 100% true synthetic oil and "man made" here in the USA and not an actual fossil fuel, is better in my book alone. The performance of 100% synthetic speaks for itself if you choose to do the research. Amsoil did create the first true synthetic motor oil in the 70's, but i'm not on here to promote them, I could care less. If there is another 100% "true" synthetic motor oil, (NOT FROM CRUDE OIL) I would gladly try that as well and compare. - Peace
Pennzoil makes a 100% synthetic motor oil (not "full" synthetic which in not all synthetic base).

It's funny to read what you are all saying, from what I'm reading here, it seems that some are stuck on what they're daddy told them and others have done some research. Mobile 1 does have a true synthetic, although very hard to find, Castrol Euro is required in BMW,VW,AUDI,PORSCHE,MERCEDES and so on in order for the warranty to not be void. Royal Purp, AmsOil and Red Line are also made of group iv base. I don't know why I clicked this link. All I have to say is, B4 you hit publish open a new window and do some reading. Good websites are the oil companies who make the oil, oil test laboratories websites, Sad thing is, is that each and every post in here has some truth on the positive side of the post but as soon asyou go negative, you set it in people's subconscious and that's who bigfoot came to be. Anyway all five oils in this thread are full group iv base stock with the exception of Mobile 1 which does have a hard to find true synthetic. Anyway take it for what you will and if you say something negative about my post, all I ask is that you have proof to backup your claim, I have you mine. Thank you for reading.
I forgot to add that Castrol Eruo MADE IN BELGIUM only is a truly full Synthetic not Castrols that say made in the USA which is sad. I dislike all the deceiving words that these companies use, I guess that's what we get in return for freedom of speech but only if you word it right, in other words deception of speech.
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